Episode 10: From Phone Calls Going Out To Pouring In W/Broc Buckles

My guest on today’s podcast is Broc Buckles. Broc is the co-founder and co-owner of BC- Brokerage- an independent insurance brokerage firm based out of indianapolis indiana, providing life insurance, as well as disability, long term care, and annuities to clients. What’s unique about BC-Brokerage is that they don’t market direct to consumer like most insurance agencies. Instead they have chosen to work directly with fee-only financial planners like myself to serve our clients and solve a very specific pain point in the fee-only space which is how to provide insurance solutions to clients when we aren’t salespeople. In this episode we talk about Broc and his business partner Peter’s journey of working in the insurance space and learning exactly what they don’t want to do which is upsell, call their friends and family for sales, and live transactionally. and how they came across the fee-only community and saw a real need that they could serve. We talk about how they navigated the early days of getting their name out there all the way to now when phone calls are no longer going out from their office but pouring in to their office and how htye have managed immense growth. Broc also spoke candidly and highly of his relationship with Peter- how starting a business together with a friend alters the relationship, but how they have successfully built a healthy partnership based on respect, genuine care for each other, and playing to each others’ strengths. And be sure to listen to the end as Broc shares how he defines success, and how it doesn’t have to do with the dollars in the bank, but rather the feeling of fulfillment and freedom he is working towards. So with that introduction I hope you enjoy this episode of the Self-employment success podcast with Broc Buckles.

Links

PeaceLink Financial Planning
BC Brokerage

TRANSCRIPT

Leland Gross (00:01.007)

All right, welcome Brock Buckles to the Self-Employment Success Podcast. Excited to have you here.

Broc Buckles (00:05.514)

Hey man, good to be here. I appreciate it. I've been looking forward to it.

Leland Gross (00:08.439)

Yeah, same for the listeners. Brock is a colleague turned friend of mine who I think as of today, we've probably spent more time on podcasts together than in person together, but we have had some opportunities to hang out. And Brock has partnered with me to serve tons of my clients. And I really love the work he and his firm do. It's, it's high quality, it's high integrity. And it's different than how a lot of the folks in his industry do it. So

I'm excited to kind of for you guys to hear about his business and you know how they think about it what that journey has been like because also they've seen a lot of growth in a short amount of time I would say you can correct me if I'm wrong Brock but you you sort of fall into the like COVID pandemic baby business like where you know right before the pandemic or kind of during that is when you know a lot of people started their businesses and you guys have seen a huge growth scale in just a matter of a handful of years.

So yeah, to get started, tell us a little bit about you, yourself personally, professionally, and what your business is, what it does, and where it is today. That was like 10 questions in one.

Broc Buckles (01:16.426)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, again, Brock buckles from Indianapolis, Indiana. Companies based in Indianapolis, Indiana is called BC Brokers, but we work in all 50 states. So kind of going back, I was at a big fortune 500 company to kind of get my introduction into the world of insurance and what it looked like. And that's kind of where we started. But my business partner, Peter and I

met originally on the first day of training at that employer. And I'll just say it was Northwestern Mutual. And I basically, you know, met Peter, we did it together. He decided that he wanted to leave. I stuck it out for six years to see exactly what I didn't wanna be doing anymore. And that was calling a bunch of my friends and family, trying to get them to purchase insurance products. And so we kind of saw this need in the market and Peter actually approached me.

I was thinking about getting out of the insurance industry totally. And he said, hey, I think there's this opportunity. There's this part of the industry where there's these people called fee only financial planners. And I had my like thoroughbred Kentucky Derby horse blinders on. I didn't even know what the term was. Right. And he was like, they serve their clients, but they don't do any insurance recommendations. And they're like held to a higher standard because of the way that they serve people. I was like, well, that's cool. So what's the pain point? He's like, insurance.

for them, right? They have to worry about when they recommend insurance to people that their clients are gonna be upsold or their clients are gonna be stolen or it's not gonna be what they recommend. And I said, well, that does seem like a legitimate pain point. So here we are in the amazing year of January, 2020, and we decided to start a business. And obviously everybody knows what happened shortly after that. So it was a little bit scary at first.

but we just kept pounding the pavement and working really hard and calling people and posting on social media and just doing our best to try to stay relevant and consistent. Fast forward to where we are today. We serve planners all over the country. It's been an amazing experience. So that's kind of where I'm at on the business front. Personally, I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. I'm getting married in September, the same week as X, Y, P and Live, which you know about. So big, big week for me, dog Myla.

Leland Gross (03:26.911)

Yeah.

So I'll expect to see you at XYPN Live then.

Broc Buckles (03:33.586)

I will totally still be there. Yeah. I can't. Can't. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's like one of the biggest weeks of the year for us. So we, I have to be there. Uh, yeah. Peter's like, when Peter found out, he was like, you're still going to X, Y, P and line, right? I'm like, Peter, you know, you're in the wedding and like, that's a big, he's like, no, we have to be there. I was like, yeah, all right. You're right. Um,

Leland Gross (03:35.479)

You will. That was a joke I thought you were definitely gonna miss.

Leland Gross (03:43.389)

Oh man.

Leland Gross (03:50.286)

Hahaha

Bachelor party, we'll throw you a bachelor party one night.

Broc Buckles (03:55.326)

Yeah, there we go. Yeah, the week of bachelor party. So yeah, I mean, that's kind of that's kind of an overview.

Leland Gross (04:02.671)

That's awesome. Yeah, so for everybody listening, what a fee only financial planner is, Brock hit on that. In the financial advising space, some advisors get paid based off of the products that they sell you. So they get a fee based on which mutual fund or which insurance product they put you in.

And because of that, they just have to sell you something that sort of fits your need at the point of sale versus this phrase fee only financial planner, which is what I do is we get paid a fee directly from our clients. It is not based on

what product or solution we give you, which frees us up to kind of really look at you and talk about what is most important and what you need. But the biggest flat line there is, we can still set you up with investments, we can still custody assets for you, but we cannot sell you insurance because we're no longer salesmen. So we will come up with these plans, but we need someone to be able to implement it and just write the papers to get you that product, which is exactly what Brock

or Peter do is they fill that need so that as a fee only planner I can make sure my clients have the right insurances in place but like he said many times we go to these insurance agents and they will upsell our clients or they'll try and get you a more expensive product that's more complicated that you don't totally need because it pays that insurance agent more.

And what Brock and Peter have done is they've created this unique value add for this specific type of planner to be able to work with our clients. But really, we come, I say, hey, this is the based on everything I know, I've done the plan. This is the product my client needs and they will execute that. There's no upselling. I totally trust.

Leland Gross (05:46.651)

Brock and Peter, which is huge, because unfortunately, truly unfortunately, I think in the finance industry as a whole, insurance investments, there's been a lot of trust deteriorating over the years because of sales culture, and it feels like if you're gonna go try and get an insurance product, you're working with a used car salesman who's gonna sell you a car that doesn't have an engine just because it looks nice, and once you get off the lot, it's your problem. So Brock and Peter really have such a high level of integrity, which has been awesome to partner with.

for my clients. But yeah, okay, so you guys are both at Northwestern Mutual. You're calling your friends and family. You're in that sales culture. And Peter left, you said, five years before you.

Broc Buckles (06:31.67)

Yeah, like he was doing it for like a little bit. And then I was like, you know, I'm like a type of person that commits and then I buy in and then I, here I am. And you know, that's just who I am. And that's good and bad in some ways, right? But yeah, Peter left and he kind of like opened his eyes and it was funny because Peter was always like, man, it'd be really cool to create a business where you could get the phone ringing the other way. So like, once you meet people and then they kind of send you business and then you can just kind of help facilitate that.

And I'll never forget looking at Peter in his eyes and being like, well, Peter, newsflash buddy, that's not how it works. You have to call them. And so ironically, the way that we actually do it now is most of the time in the beginning, we were reaching out to the financial planners and now the phone ironically brings the other way, right? When there's a need to be served. So yeah, we're much different as people, but we're a really good team for sure.

Leland Gross (07:07.943)

Hahaha. The irony.

Leland Gross (07:20.199)

and

Leland Gross (07:28.111)

That's awesome. So you guys decide, we're taking the leap, did you have savings built up? Like how long of a runway did you have? Were you making this decision in July 2019 and kind of building towards it? Was it a pretty like...

we're doing it and we're leaving. The jump to entrepreneurship is terrifying. And so a lot of people get loans or they save or they have a spouse that's providing a lot of income. What did that look like for you going from what I assume is a high commission paying job at Northwestern Mutual after that many years to we're starting from scratch.

Broc Buckles (08:03.126)

Yeah, no, for sure. So we bootstrapped the entire thing. Now we both had personal savings, right? But there was no loans, there was nothing like that. We were actually not sure exactly what we were gonna do. I just got done with Northwestern Mutual. He was at another place. We were trying to figure out if we were gonna work with them, what we were gonna do, right? And then we ultimately were like, you know what? Forget about all this, let's go do our own thing. So it kind of happened spontaneously.

And then there was just kind of a fire underneath us. By necessity, we had to get this thing up and running. And then as soon as we felt that pressure, there was the COVID pressure right after that. And so a lot of these people that I'm calling, and Peter is more of the operations, he was setting up the systems, the CRMs, like this is how we're actually gonna do it, which is really valuable. But in the beginning, obviously, we just needed to have people to work with and people that actually believed in what we were doing and the mission and how we're gonna help serve their clients.

Leland Gross (08:35.822)

Mm-hmm.

Leland Gross (08:41.272)

Yeah!

Broc Buckles (09:01.482)

In the very beginning, it was literally just operation, meet new fee only financial planners. And so I was calling people from all over the country at XYPN. I was meeting with financial planners here locally. There's a pretty good fee only financial planning community here in the Indianapolis area. So we were meeting with them and we were lucky enough for some of them to say, hey, we'll give you a shot. Right.

I heard literally everything from, yeah, sure, we can meet. You can kind of tell me about your value prop too. Call me back in six months just to see if we would to don't ever call me again. So it's not unlike anybody else, right? There's just, you're gonna get all the different answers. And so, yeah, we kind of, you know, bootstrapped it from the beginning. And still to this day, I've never had any, you know, VC money. We've never gone and gotten a loan. We've just kind of cashflowed it and saved up and reinvested back into the business. And...

Leland Gross (09:39.622)

Yeah.

Broc Buckles (09:55.682)

That's kind of, and I mean, the big thing was that I did learn that I will credit to Northwestern Mutual, right? This will be one of the few things that you'll probably hear me credit. But it's just the discipline to have no shame and be able to handle rejection very well, right? So when people told me, hey, I don't know if I wanna meet with you. I don't know if this is the right fit. Actually, I don't wanna meet with you.

Leland Gross (10:03.207)

Mm-hmm.

Broc Buckles (10:20.198)

I did have the discipline just to say, okay, that's no big deal, right? And I was more than happy to call the next person and ask for the same opportunity. And so I do appreciate that aspect of it. Obviously the follow through and the selling to friends and family part has completely disappeared out of my life. But the discipline to be able to continue calling people and face rejection, I think is a gift.

Leland Gross (10:39.307)

Yeah. And just so you know, I think you cut out a little bit, but what I heard, it was just for a second. It was the thing you credit Northwestern Mutual is they really train you to pound the phone calls. You're used to rejection because that's just part of it. It's a numbers game. It's, you know, if I just keep showing up, I will get rejected and I will also get accepted. And so that muscle is not intimidating for you. Okay. Awesome. And

Broc Buckles (10:58.862)

You got it.

Broc Buckles (11:02.998)

Yeah. Yep.

Leland Gross (11:07.039)

I'm interested, I haven't really thought about this, and you said it just a minute ago, that you guys started with a niche, and you are very much in the XYPN community, and I've said it, I think, maybe on every episode of this podcast so far, but this saying that the riches are in the niches. But a lot of times what we experience is if you really double down on a niche, this is who I work with, this is not who I work with, it is a slower and more painful first year or two.

But then all the studies and all the benchmarking show, then you boom. So can you speak to that? What was that like for you? Did you ever feel like should we expand our horizons to not just be only advisors because we need more products sold or whatever? What was that like almost limiting your scope, targeting it, but also cutting it down drastically compared to you could just go to your neighbor or anybody and say, do you need life insurance?

Broc Buckles (11:51.819)

Yeah.

Broc Buckles (12:04.738)

Hard in the beginning because, yeah, because once people found out that we were doing, I mean, I had a lot of old people that I worked with at Northwestern Mutual and a lot of people that just kind of thought we were your typical insurance brokerage and didn't know that we worked with Feelingly Financial Planners. I mean, to the extent that we literally had advisors that were commission-based advisors that we would obviously would have had to split the commission with, right? But that we're literally like, hey, I've got three cases on my desk right now. I can send you guys and I'm like doing the math in my head

Leland Gross (12:06.601)

Yeah

Leland Gross (12:28.077)

Mmm.

Broc Buckles (12:35.038)

not a lot of money coming in in the beginning and we would have easily made thousands of dollars on that, but we just said from the get go, just not what we're doing, right? Like I'm not getting into the commission splitting world. I'm not, cause the one thing about that and that part of the industry too is, not only is it not the right thing or what I was trying to get away from, right? But it's also like splitting hairs. So every year.

Leland Gross (12:43.199)

Mmm

Broc Buckles (12:59.754)

you know, oh, we threw you guys this much business, we want another 5%. We, you know, so there's always like this kind of weird side of that industry. But we also just believed in the message and what the fee only financial planning community was doing. And so obviously in the beginning, it would have been easier to be able to say, well, until we get up and running, let's take some of these other things or we can sell to our friends and family or whatever it was. But we just took a hard stance. And you know, we had a lot of people reach out that weren't fee only that we just said no to.

Leland Gross (13:03.706)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (13:07.611)

Totally.

Leland Gross (13:22.491)

Yeah.

Broc Buckles (13:29.302)

because it's not what we do, it's not what we specialize in. And we wanted to be known as people that were really focused and served a particular group of people. And so we've kept that going and that's what we still do to this day.

Leland Gross (13:42.307)

I mean, which is so respectable. I respect you guys so much for that. Even, I would say I work with a lot of small business owners, but there have been other people who come in and I'm like, you need help and I can help you and this could be great. Like, it's hard to hold your ground on that, especially when...

Broc Buckles (13:56.866)

Yep, for sure.

Leland Gross (14:01.551)

you're trying to support yourself. And you guys have two of you that you're trying to support with your business. So there's almost like, you need double the growth. Granted, you have double the manpower. So you guys have seen a ton of growth. I mean, when we go to X, Y, P and Live, which is we've talked about as an annual conference that we're both at, I mean, you guys are some of the most popular people in the room. You guys hosted like a cocktail hour and there was, you know.

Broc Buckles (14:20.674)

Thank you.

Leland Gross (14:22.723)

It was shoulder to shoulder in that room. You need twice the amount of space next year. And it's so fun, but like that is a testament to, you guys have really built your name, built your brand, built your niche, and cared for us as the only planners and our clients really well.

What has that growth been like? Have you guys had to put in new systems? Have you hired? I mean, when you grow that fast in volume, like you said, it's no longer I'm calling out. It's, we just need people to man the phones and the emails and get these policies out and follow up on them because this person didn't get us their fact sheet and this person didn't sign the docu sign. And you guys are managing a lot. There's a quantity and scaling issue you guys are coming up again. So what has that been like for you?

Broc Buckles (15:10.282)

Yeah, that's a good question, man. So like I said in the beginning, it was just like operation, meet new people, right? And then I think that we noticed a definite change, a definitive change after our first X, Y, P, N, right? So when we had met people, we threw the first happy hour, which I think like maybe 20 people showed up to. It was super cool. But then it was like people started talking.

And we started doing a good job for people. And I think people appreciated that. And we did, I think the biggest thing was we did what we said we were gonna do, which was we're gonna take care of your client's insurance. We can't promise that we're gonna get everybody approved. What we can promise is how we're gonna handle things. We're not gonna upsell. We're gonna be transparent. We're gonna be in communication with the fee-only planner. And so as we continued to grow, a lot of word of mouth stuff started happening. And fee-only planners, you know, in the X, Y, P, and Facebook group message and all the other things, like,

Leland Gross (15:41.775)

Hmm

Broc Buckles (16:02.518)

hey, anybody know someone that can help me with insurance? And we were so lucky and privileged, and I'd say blessed to have so many planners come in and say, hey, have you guys heard of BC Brokerage? And we just started getting meetings, booking like crazy. I mean, there were meetings, I was literally running 25, 30 new introductions to feeling financial planners, which is crazy. I mean, that's like all I was doing. And so we did hire Rodney Mogan.

There's been Peter and I, but the thing that I credit to Peter is he's got a very systems and operations and processes mind, right? And so he was able to think, okay, I see this growth happening. I understand the direction that it's going. We're going to have to learn to automate some of this stuff or else we're going to be in big trouble, right? We're going to be underwater. And so that's when things like a weekly email turned into the advisor portal where everybody can see what's going on in a talk so limited part of our CRM.

Leland Gross (16:49.73)

Mm-mm.

Broc Buckles (16:58.554)

automated emails and so all these things and we're actually looking to hire again right now, but so it's continuing to happen but the thing that I really credit to Peter and appreciate about him is that He is really really has a mind for that stuff And so we've been able to stay lean but very efficient as well So that's definitely a credit to him But yeah, it's ever-growing ever-expanding and the hiring is gonna have to continue. We just want to make sure it's the right people

Leland Gross (17:14.474)

Mm-mm.

Leland Gross (17:26.111)

Yeah, I mean, I'm just impressed at that piece. We are so efficient that, because I don't even know the extent of your volume, but I can just tell knowing.

this community, knowing how many people people are serving, that you guys are probably, you know, really managing a lot of volume. And it's true, now that I think about it, you created a portal, we had those emails. I mean, you guys do a really great job of making every actual client and advisor feel, okay, I'm in the loop, I know exactly what's going on. So speak to me a little bit about...

you and Peter. So I know you guys met at training. He's obviously in your wedding coming up. You guys have started this insurance empire together, but partnership and business can be really wonderful or it can be like a marriage that gets divorced one day and is really, really painful. Obviously I'm not hoping that for you guys are speaking that over you, but we, we hear all the stories, you know, and, and sometimes when you are mixing business and friendship and

Broc Buckles (18:23.839)

Yeah

Leland Gross (18:32.351)

it just can get complicated. It's a really intense relationship. So what has that looked like for you guys as you guys have navigated business? Do you guys agree on most things? Is there systems for conflict or anything like that? Just tell us about your partnership.

Broc Buckles (18:45.642)

Yeah, no, that's a good question. I hope Peter and I stay married too. But it's funny because from the beginning when we met at Northwestern, right? I'm like the small town Indiana kid, right? I'm pretty sure I borrowed my dad's blazer to go to the first day or something like that. And Peter shows up in a pinstripe suit with his hair slicked back. He's from Jersey. And so I was like, I don't know if I like this guy.

Leland Gross (18:50.245)

Hahaha

Leland Gross (19:10.396)

Ugh.

Broc Buckles (19:12.338)

And that was when we first met and then like, cause we were just different, right? Like he lived in Carmel, he's from Jersey, I'm from Alexandria, very small town. And then we really hit it off and we went to one of the regional meetings and hit it off really well. And then became friends even after he left, always stayed in touch. Obviously how we ended up starting a business together. But then when you start a business, I would be lying and remiss if I did not say, of course owning a business together changes the dynamic of the relationship.

Leland Gross (19:41.548)

Mm-hmm.

Broc Buckles (19:41.642)

Right? We weren't just friends anymore. We were friends, but we were friends that were relying on each other's ability to work hard to very literally sustain our livelihoods. And so there are obviously times where we're both like, Hey man, we're on the same page. Let's go this direction. Love what you're saying here. And there are other times where, you know, I might be saying like, dude, we just need to get more people in the door. This is the way that needs to, especially in the beginning, right? Like this is the way it needs to happen. And he's over here talking about systems and operations. I'm like,

We don't even need the systems yet. We need people in the door, right? And so there's always like these conversations and then there was times where, you know, he's had to be like, Brock, there's too many people. We have a lot of people in the door. We need to focus more on these operations and getting this stuff together. And so I think the thing that I really valued about him, and I think he'd say the same about me, is we've learned how to communicate effectively and in ways that make sense to both of our personalities. And we understand that what's important to us at the end of the day is

Leland Gross (20:23.491)

Mm.

Leland Gross (20:32.065)

Mmm.

Broc Buckles (20:39.722)

serving the feeling financial planning community, doing a good job, maintaining the reputation that we have, also while maintaining the friendship, right? So there's also gotta be some rules. So if Pete and I are hanging out as friends, that means like we've got to limit the business talk, right? Like on Saturdays or whatever it is, we wanna go out and like grab a couple drinks, grab dinner, like it's how are you been? What are you up to? You know, how's your fiance? How's your family doing? And so I think that we've tried to make a little bit of a.

Leland Gross (20:47.469)

Mm-hmm

Leland Gross (20:54.448)

Mm-hmm.

Broc Buckles (21:08.202)

of a line there as well. But yeah, of course, without a doubt, the relationship changes when you go into business with each other. But we've done a really good job of kind of figuring out what's important to each one of us individually, what's important to us together. And then, you know, there's just ultimately has to be a level of respect there that we maintain.

Leland Gross (21:09.901)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (21:26.135)

Yeah, I see that when I interact with you guys. Obviously I interact with you more on the business side. I've never actually just gotten dinner to hang. But yeah, it just appears that there's a huge...

Broc Buckles (21:34.888)

Sure.

Leland Gross (21:39.051)

mutual respect and I think that's important. I was talking to a mentor of mine probably two months ago who we serve very similar clientele, we think very similar, he's been in the business much longer than I have and we were talking about business partnership, not necessarily between us but just as a thing and he was saying like he can, he's gotten to the point where he can look at any partnership and say like they're gonna work or they're not gonna work and.

The reason he can do that is because he can tell, when you're with them.

Does one person sort of dominate the time? Does one person eye roll when the other person, you know, says something? Is there mutual respect? And are they playing to their strengths? Like, are they both trying to be the main sales guy? Are they both trying to be the operations guy? Are they both trying to compete for these roles? He was like, if there's not respect and you're not just owning, hey, you're bringing something to the table that I don't bring.

Broc Buckles (22:16.846)

Mm-hmm.

Leland Gross (22:41.079)

it's not gonna work because we all have our different strengths and you kinda need to play to that. And he also mentioned what you said about like, a key to a successful business partnership is being able to divide the line and to be able to engage personally. Like you can't just do business all the time, but to say, you know, I actually care about you as a person, what's going on in your life, how are you really doing? And being able to go to a dinner and have that conversation and not just.

let work bleed into every little piece of your relationship. So it's really cool that you guys have that. And I think it's really rare. I think a lot of people start businesses together, but it's really rare to find a truly successful, mutually respectful relationship that plays to its strengths. And I think that's probably a big piece of why you guys have achieved such great success is playing to that.

Broc Buckles (23:32.286)

Yeah, I think it's been helpful. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, it's so funny because you look at both of us and like I said, we are like very different people, right? Like we're into different things. We want to live in different parts of the country. Like, just but like our values, we were both honest people. We both have high integrity. And then we are both if you listen to you know, if you ever listen to our podcast, you'll hear us say a lot. If there were two Brocks at BC Brokerage, you'd have a lot of business coming through the door, like a lot of new planner meetings.

And then nothing would ever get done. Right. And so I think Pete's always said, Hey man, you, you, you are good at like the people stuff, you like the people stuff. Not to say that Pete's not good at the people's stuff. He is good at the people's stuff, but he's really good at the operation stuff. And I'm horrible at the operation stuff. So it's being able to say like, not horrible. I don't, but I'm not as good as he is for sure. Right. And so I just think it's like important. And also I don't want to be, I think that's the other thing. Like I had a mentor once and he said.

Leland Gross (24:22.247)

fair.

Broc Buckles (24:31.454)

Hey Brock, what are you like not great at? And I'm like, well, I'm not the most organized guy you have ever seen. And he was like, so what do you need to get better at? And I'm like, I need to get better at organization. He's like, no, you don't. You need to find someone who's really good at organization. Exactly. And then you just need to keep focusing on what you're good at. And so I've always taken that to heart and it's been huge that we're both just good at different things.

Leland Gross (24:43.651)

you need to get better at delegating organization. Ha ha.

Leland Gross (24:55.735)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you have a great partnership. It's so fun and it's funny to see like, I'm on a call with Peter and then 30 minutes later, he posts something and he's like, oh, Peter's in Morocco. Like, Peter's the world traveler. Who knows where in the world is Peter Travello? Yeah. And so there is just like, oh wow, you guys are totally different, but work seamlessly. Like you guys are like yin and yang, or at least that's how you present. But it does feel that way.

Broc Buckles (25:11.063)

Yeah. You don't say Antarctica. Yeah.

Broc Buckles (25:21.982)

No, it really isn't. I mean, it's hilarious because he'll just call me randomly during the day, like, what's up, dude? Like, what are you up to? You know, so it's not all business either. Like it will be, but like he'll be telling me about this car show that he just went to in Miami or the fun dinner that he had last night or whatever. So I mean, like, you know, obviously the friendship came first. The business part of it is there by necessity. But there's nobody I'd rather be running a business with.

Leland Gross (25:29.252)

Hahaha!

Leland Gross (25:43.57)

Mmm

Leland Gross (25:50.103)

Amazing. So what surprised you most about the journey of BC Brokerage from like when you launched to now? What what has surprised you the most?

Broc Buckles (26:01.07)

Honestly, I would say, I mean, the consistency aspect, right, of social media, I would say would be one of the biggest things because I just never ever did that. And when I look back, first of all, I guess overall, it'd be like how far we've come in the amount of time that we've come, right? Just in general, the amount of people that we've gotten to work with, the amount of people that we've been able to meet, the impact that we're able to have.

That would be the first and foremost thing. But like within that, I look back at the social media videos that we were creating in like the early 2020 time. And I like literally, I'm like, this is the most cringey thing I've ever watched in my life. But it's really awesome that I just, I got in the habit and he got in the habit. I mostly run the social media. So I got in the habit of just posting consistently. Like every day I throw something out there and like sometimes I think it's gonna do well.

and it does horribly. Sometimes I think it's like the crappiest stuff I've ever put out and people love it. And so just like understanding that the consistency behind your message and creating a brand is really the sticking point. And then the other thing that I would say has been kind of surprising is just the other factor that you just can't control and you can try to accelerate it as much as you possibly want to, but it's just time, right? No matter how much you try to get your name out there, do things.

Leland Gross (27:20.891)

Mmm.

Broc Buckles (27:24.55)

It just takes time ultimately to for people to start recognizing you. Even if you can get your message out to a bunch of people, it takes time for people to actually trust you and believe that you can do a good job and for you to prove yourself. So those are some of the things that like looking back, I'm like, man, those were just kind of the intangibles that like you have to have, you have to stay consistent, you have to be disciplined. And then you got to add that kind of secret sauce of time into it. And ultimately things have worked out.

Leland Gross (27:48.056)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I completely agree. I love the thought on time just because it's true. It's like, if you build it, they will come. And you wanna be consistent, you wanna put the things that let them know you built it. But like there is just a piece of, can you outlast? My wife and I are survivor fans. So it's like, can you outwit, outplay, outlast? Like, can you just make through the time? Because the time will, people will come. It will start snowballing.

Broc Buckles (28:18.029)

Don't let your tribe be spoken. Is that what it is, survivor? Tribe is spoken. Yeah. Yeah.

Leland Gross (28:22.074)

Yeah, your tribe has spoken. Don't let them speak. Stay in the tribe. What has there been or what was the low point for you so far?

Broc Buckles (28:33.782)

Man, I would say definitely the beginning. I mean, that was such, because not everything's been sunshine and rainbow since then, right? Obviously there's been hard parts, there's been scaling, there's been bringing on another team member, there's been all of that stuff, but in the beginning it was like, we were already like under a lot of pressure and then COVID hit, and I would call some people, and I remember one guy's like, you're calling me and I'm just trying to save my business here.

Leland Gross (29:02.57)

Mmm.

Broc Buckles (29:03.946)

And I was like, huh, do we actually have a value offering that's gonna work here, Peter? You know, like I'd be looking across the table. And you know, we were like literally set up at his house. We actually were roommates for a while. We were actually set up, the only place we could put an office, which actually was a decent sized space, but it was in the laundry room. So a lot of people don't know that, but we're like pausing the washer and dryer in between calls.

Leland Gross (29:05.728)

Same, brother.

Yeah.

Broc Buckles (29:30.354)

And so we're calling around trying to get people to believe in it. But I think we both just had this faith that it was going to work. I don't I don't even know how to explain it, I guess. And I've never had, you know, since I since the day I graduated college, I've never had a salary. I've never known what it's like to have a salary. I've never not even, you know, when I was in high school or anything like that, had a salary. So I feel like there's a level of ignorance for me to not even know what it's like to be comfortable in that way. So that was kind of nice. And he was the same way. And so.

Leland Gross (29:36.058)

Mmm

Leland Gross (29:55.05)

Mmm.

Broc Buckles (29:58.538)

But that was definitely the low point is just not knowing anybody, not knowing exactly the direction that we wanted to go, not being really super familiar with the feeling community, right? Like now I could tell you more people than I can possibly even think of right now that we know we've gotten to interact with, we have on the podcast, we've met at X, Y, P and live or another conference. So that would be cool. But in the beginning, you just don't know what you don't know. And so I would definitely say that that's a low point was just trying to figure out how we're going to attack this thing.

Leland Gross (30:07.829)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (30:27.771)

Totally, that makes sense. Now, this is a podcast about success, and if you ask anybody on the street what is success, their definition is gonna be different. So for you, how would you define success, and how will you know if and when you achieve it?

Broc Buckles (30:46.666)

Yeah, so success for me is, you know, number one, I wanna make sure that what I'm doing has impact, right? Like I actually wanna be doing something that's fulfilling to me, because I can tell you at my previous career, I didn't feel that and that was debilitating regardless of how much money I was making, right? So success, I think number one, impact, super important. Number two, for me, I'm a big freedom guy, right? So if I can do what I wanna do without having to ask anybody, that's huge for me.

Leland Gross (30:54.72)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (31:00.389)

Hmm

Broc Buckles (31:14.73)

I don't have any kids yet, but I always joke with my fiance. She's like in the corporate world and she's like gonna be at meetings and stuff. I'm like, if I can be the dad that's like taking my kids to practice and doing whatever I want. And we've got the business running, you know, without me one day, not without me, but I'm not doing so much of the day-to-day operations. I'm keeping it like we have an organization that can function independently of me. And we've actually built something that can stand up on its own two feet and continue to do that, which I feel like we've already

Leland Gross (31:27.584)

Mmm

Broc Buckles (31:44.91)

done, but it can only get better. Right? And just, you know, being there for family, being able to travel, being able to, you know, just be the person that I believe I need to be. That's what success looks like for me. Right? It's not a dollar amount, although I think that there's a lot of freedom that comes with making good money. Right? So I think making money is important. But I learned a long time ago that the impact and freedom are the things that I probably care about the most.

Leland Gross (31:46.638)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (32:03.001)

Mmm.

Leland Gross (32:11.183)

Mm, I love that. Well, thank you so much for being on the Self-Employment Success podcast today. It's been so fun, and I always love a chance to get to hang out with ya.

Broc Buckles (32:20.49)

Yeah, I appreciate you, man. Thanks. Thank you so much as always.