Episode 27: From Veteran To Entrepreneur Serving Veterans W/ Nic Stevens

Welcome to the 27th episode of the Self-Employment Success Podcast. My guest on today’s podcast is Nic Stevens. Nic is the owner of Atlas, a recruiting company designed to help connect valuable companies to the military community as they transition out of the military. They work with veterans and their spouses to craft a path forward by helping them discover options out there that might be beyond what they have envisioned for themselves, whether that be a job, education, connection, etc. What’s unique about Nic is that he himself was a military veteran who worked with a recruiting firm when he got out to get a job that ultimately was not a healthy fit for him or the company. He also worked in a business that used a military recruiting firm and realized it was hard to find the right talent as a business. Additionally he worked for a military recruiting firm before purchasing Atlas. So having seen this niche service from the side of the recruiter, the military vet, and the business, he has developed a passion for making this process smooth, affordable, and ultimately valuable for all parties. In this episode Nic tells his story and talks about what it was like to purchase a business, and the vision he has for Atlas long term as more than just a recruiting firm, but a place to demonstrate the value of our military veteran community. And be sure to listen to the end as Nic shares how he defines success both personally and professionally. So with that introduction, I hope you enjoy this episode of the Self-Employment Success Podcast with Nic Stevens.

Links:
PeaceLink Financial Planning
Atlas

TRANSCRIPT

Leland Gross (00:01.058)

All right, welcome Nick to the Self-Employment Success Podcast. Excited to have you here today. Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks, Leland. Of course. I'm excited about today's episode mostly because you lived your job. Like you created a business that you also sort of lived through and then created a business to help problem solve a lot of these things. So as cryptic as that sounds, tell the listeners about yourself, about your business and where it stands today.

Yeah, well, I appreciate the opportunity to be here. So Atlas is a platform that helps the military community find jobs, education opportunities, training opportunities, and it really, our focus is to connect organizations that are seeking military talent for whatever reason, provide a platform for them to be able to display and show the types of opportunities that they offer and really just connect without the need of a job fair or a...

a contingency recruiting firm or something of that nature. So I acquired Atlas a year ago. Atlas is a big focus is on SkillBridge opportunities, which is internships for transitioning military. But yeah, I've been in this industry for about 10 years now. So former army myself got out, was a candidate in this industry, looking for an opportunity, used a recruiting firm, found myself in a job that was not, really I was...

working harder and away from family longer than I was when I was in the military. So I realized that wasn't for me and went to work for the largest military recruiting firm in the country and really got to see the business from all sides. You know, I got to, as a candidate, as a hiring manager, and as a recruiter and doing sales, working with companies, helping them build military hiring programs. And, you know, when I came across Atlas and the opportunity to acquire this company, I saw that it really had the potential to fit.

a major hole in this market. So that's, that's what we decided to do. Um, I've owned it for about a year now, but really just launching our, uh, our online platform. And, um, yeah, that's our, that's our focus. So that's awesome. So my understanding is you were a military, correct? And so when you came out of the military, I don't think, I don't think civilians understand that coming out of the military is a huge transition, just the military world as a machine. And so you come out and it's like, all right, well,

Leland Gross (02:18.846)

Now you are responsible to find your job. No one's gonna tell you where to move, what to do. Exactly. And so you're trying to navigate that, whether it's navigating schools and going back to school, whether it's getting a job. And so there are these services that can kind of help military connect. Correct, yeah. So you were kind of in that world, but it's a lot of job fairs. It's not totally the smoothest system. And so Atlas...

kind of comes in and fills a hole there. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so, you know, when you're in the military, you know what job you're gonna have next. If for as long as you're in the military, you know day one, you know, that if I'm in for 20 years, this is what my career will look like. You may not know the location of where you're gonna be, but you know what types of jobs, what types of roles and leadership positions you'll have throughout your career. So oftentimes, folks decide to leave the military and they haven't ever.

interviewed for a job and if they have, it's been to work at the grocery store in their hometown when they were growing up or whatever that might have been. So there is, there is a gap where now you have to take your career into your own hands and figure out what it is you want to do. There, there are a lot of great organizations out there, recruiting firms that help veterans as they're transitioning. But oftentimes, and what happened to me was, you know, I don't didn't have a network built, didn't really know. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna

outsource this to this company and they'll find me a job and they did. They found me a job. I got to interview with a lot of companies that they set me up with and working with those recruiters, they do a great job, but working with those recruiters, they're also trying to make money. They're putting you into positions and into interviews that will benefit them and help them place the most candidates, which is great. I mean, any organization out there that's helping veterans find roles, we appreciate.

However, that never allowed for me, not them, but I never took the initiative myself to go out there and really start looking at what they're, I found myself in manufacturing. Nine months later, realized I hated manufacturing. I realized that the lifestyle for me, I've got plenty of friends that went into manufacturing, they love it. And they'll stay at those companies for the rest of their life probably.

Leland Gross (04:31.882)

But for me and that specific company I was with, though I was able to learn a lot and get a lot of experience that helped me later down the road. You know, I realized that wasn't for me. So I decided to go into this military recruiting space and learned a lot there. It was great for me in a lot of ways. I was able to work with veterans again, not just as the people I was helping, but all my peers, all the people at the company were veterans. So it was good to put me back into that community.

But over doing this for 10 years, at one point I left and worked for a venture backed startup in Dallas where we use the services of that recruiting firm. And I was able to see it from the client side. It's like, man, this is not, it's not easy, you know, and you're putting a lot of trust into a company that is always going to, always going to try and make you look like the best job on their job board and always make the candidate look like the best candidate who's ever left the military. And there's a lot of disconnect there. And so we saw this need for this platform where.

The military community can go out and network directly with hiring managers, learn about companies, be able to go on there and find their own roadmap and be able to see, okay, these are the types of companies that, you know, put, put some initiative into hiring veterans. Let's see the types of programs they have. Let's see some of the success stories of, of other folks who have military community who's gone to that organization. And then, you know, ask questions, apply directly there on the platform. So that's, that's what, what our focus is there. That's awesome.

And it, you're right, like we're, we're grateful, so grateful for veterans and those that serve. And so any program that's going to be helping them, especially as they transition out and have a major life change, we're grateful for. But it's cool. Not only I'm learning, not only were you military, who had to make that transition and find a job, but then you were in a business that used that. Like so you've got it from the military.

personnel aspect who's transitioning and from the business recruiting military. And so you really saw both sides of that coin. And that, I mean, even just looking at Atlas's website, that's, you're like, we are here for the companies and the people, and we're kind of making that a seamless process and getting quality candidates. For sure. So you mentioned that you acquired Atlas a year ago. So tell us a little about that. How did you find Atlas? What were they doing?

Leland Gross (06:53.822)

the same exact thing? Were they doing something different? Yeah, they were doing a little different. So they, the, the founders of Atlas to two great guys, um, that really, um, really experienced in building, building businesses, you know, they, with the launch of the department of defense, skill bridge program, essentially what that does is that allows companies who get approved to bring on interns from the military in the last six months of, of active duty. Um, while that, while that service member is still receiving their paycheck,

from the military. So, I mean, it's an opportunity for the service member to get valuable experience with a company. And it's an opportunity for a company to kind of try before you buy, right? They can, they get six months of working with this person, decide if they're a fit for the team. And if so, they can hire them. If not, then, you know, that service member's walking away with valuable experience, they can go find something else. So that was the focus of Atlas when it started. They still kind of use the typical,

contingency business model where they're going out, they're setting up interviews, they're saying, hey, this is the right candidate for you. And the company's like, are you sure? We have no idea. And they're like, oh yeah, just trust us. And they go with it. But, you know, their focus was on tech companies and their focus was, they worked with a lot of startups and it's great. I mean, it's a great match to have startups be able to try before you buy, essentially. Totally.

But I put myself in their shoes and I'm interested in startups. I've always been interested in business and entrepreneurship. I did not know a whole lot of folks leaving the military that said, you know what, I want to go work for a risky startup, you know, especially coming from the stability and the job security they had to jump into that. That takes a different type of person and that's not that's not for everybody. So I saw Atlas as an opportunity to really show the military community what's out there. I don't care if you want to go.

So culinary school or get your HVAC, become an HVAC technician or go get a top MBA. This is a place where you can look into all of that. And so this vision of this platform really came to, really came to fruition after trying to, when I took over the company, doing it the old way for a little while. I was like, there's no difference than what I was doing before. It's just another military recruiting agency that's doing, you know, with a little bit of a spin on it. So we really went.

Leland Gross (09:11.778)

full steam ahead on having this platform built. We've, you know, the development team that built it is also a veteran owned company and phenomenal, phenomenal to work with. And they built really an amazing product. But our goal here is as we're just now launching, we're kind of in our soft launch phase is to really show companies the value that they can get from being on this platform. It's a recruiting tool for them, you know, and we can go more into that later, but that answers your question. Yeah, it totally does.

And I'm struck, like when I talk to different entrepreneurs, whether it's on this podcast, whether it's a client that I serve, you kind of have a couple of ways into the path of entrepreneurship, whether it's, you know, I'm, I'm going to 10 99 and just bootstrap this until I build it, or I'm going to purchase a business and kind of step in or I'm going to franchise the franchise model. Was it scary for you? If you, you were, you said you were always interested in entrepreneurship, but

to actually go purchase a business. I mean, there's a huge step to do that. It was. So with COVID, they really threw a wrench in things in our industry. I worked at a, like I said before, I ran recruiting for a venture-backed startup in Dallas, came back to the same recruiting firm I'd been working for to launch a new brand. That was January of 2020.

And so it was supposed to be an events-based executive recruiting type of, of service. And, you know, COVID threw a wrench in that. Same thing happened for the guys that were running Atlas, you know, those venture backed startups started watching every penny and, you know, stopped, you know, really just stopped, stopped using it, right? Cause they were still paying the fee to have these candidates, even though it was much, much less than, you know, if they were paying their salaries. So, um, you know, that co the company really started struggling. Um,

I decided to go out on my own. I was running just my own boutique agency, just helping a couple of clients that I've had for years and working with some candidates that I've already worked with before. When the opportunity to buy Atlas came up and you asked before like how I met these folks. So when I was in Dallas, the founders of Atlas, I can't remember really how we first connected. I know one of the founders was army, but we did, we never are passing ever across before.

Leland Gross (11:30.71)

But they had not worked in the industry. And so they saw that I was at a startup. They knew that I had this past experience at that point of working in a recruiting firm. And so I just started giving them advice. I loved what they were doing. I loved anything that had to do with veterans and startups at the time. And so I was giving them advice, kind of telling them. And the whole time in the back of my mind, hoping them, wishing they had the best success possible, I kept thinking about all these folks that are getting out of the military that don't have

you know, a clear cut path. You know, I was infantry. A lot of the guys that I led that were infantry, you know, they get out. Sometimes people just say, yeah, you could be a security guard or a truck driver, but that's not true. There's a lot of opportunities that they can that they would be excel at, you know, especially an NCO, somebody who's been in for a while and they're on the enlisted side. I mean, they're more qualified for some of the jobs that the officers were getting. But the civilian side didn't see that. And so.

I really saw this need to serve the whole military community as a whole, regardless of their background or their interests. And that's why, um, you know, that that's why we went in with this, this platform. I forgot what your question was. I kind of went off. Well, so the, the question you were answering just now was basically how we, how you guys met them, but then also just the jump to buying a business. Was that nerve wracking? I know you've got four kids. It was. Yeah. And I got to tell you, my, my wife, I mean, my career, even though I've been able to

better part of the last 10 years with the same company, my career has been anything but stable, you know, so I've been fortunate to be in some lot, you know, some great roles with a lot of responsibility and earn good money. But, you know, my wife's a rock star. I mean, she had every step of the way has said, Yeah, go for it. You know, we left a company that, you know, at that point, I'd been at for seven years to go work for a startup, we've moved our family from Chesapeake to Dallas.

And that was what the third company I worked for since getting out of the military. Um, and I got out in 2012, so I've only been out 11 years and, um, you know, and then leaving there to go help go back to the same company here in Chesapeake and, and build a new brand under that umbrella and then stepping out on my own and then buying this company. Yeah, it was nerve wracking, but man, when you've got somebody in your corner that's saying, Oh yeah, we got this, you know, even when you're like, man, what am I doing? And you know, you got that person. Oh, we got.

Leland Gross (13:51.43)

If anybody can do it, we can do it. And you know, I'm thankful for that. I mean, she definitely gives me the push when I need it. Even sometimes when I when I don't want it, but she knows, you know, she knows what's best. But yeah, it was it was a big jump. I think acquiring a business, you know, is if you can do it, that's the way to go. You know, oftentimes, you've already got a good a good client base, you've already got, you know, in our in our case, you know, the, the product that

the veteran community. It's one of the, so it's easy for me, right? It's easy because it's such a good product. It's one of the best products out there. But in, in recruiting, you know, recruiting is one of the only industries where the product can say no, right? Is there any, anything else you're selling or access, you know, rarely can whatever your, your product is. And I hate to keep saying product, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And they say no, but, um, you know, it was, yeah, I was nerve wracking to, to dive in and, and acquire this. It was a,

huge financial risk, even more so when we started investing into building this platform. Yeah, and did you, if you don't mind me asking, did you just use savings or did you have to go get a small business? Yeah, so I was going down the small business loan routes. Yeah, I was going down that route and, you know, just looking at our savings and, you know, trying to measure our risk and seeing

you know, where we can pull this money from. And again, it wasn't like I acquired some multimillion dollar business. And we were able to pull it together and, um, and, and even, even using just a regular loan, not, not even a business loan for, for a portion of it. So, man, and we were able to do it. So yeah. And it's been, it's been good. And you know, it's, it's crazy how even through all that, you know, burning your savings, um, you know, for us, we just feel like

God's providing, you know, I feel like this is the path that we're supposed to be on. And, um, yeah, I mean, there's, there's ups and downs for sure, but, you know, there's still food on the table and, and we're building this thing and we're bootstrapping it. And, you know, I learned that for, for me, after being in that startup, I don't, I like working for myself. I don't want a boss. I mean, that's, that's the greatest blessing of all this for, for me, it really fits my personality. I'm not a, not a great employee. Um, but I'll tell you, uh, I knew I didn't want.

Leland Gross (16:12.35)

outside money. I didn't want it like a VC or I didn't want somebody that I had to answer to. That may change in the future, but for us right now, I wanted to build it my way before I had to take orders from somebody else. Yeah. I appreciate so much of what you just said. I feel like there was 10 nuggets in just what you just said of, you know, shout out to all the supportive spouses. Because as an entrepreneur, you know, I've asked the people on other guests on this podcast, you know,

what was the low point? And they're like, it's every other day. Yeah. Sometimes it's inter day. You're like, this is awesome. This is hard. And we have so much head trash around ourselves. Right. Like, am I good enough? Like the imposter syndrome and I'm with you. I mean, my wife was the one that had every step of the way has been like, you can do this. If anybody can do this, you can do this. Let's run with it. I'm like, are you, do you really understand the risk we're about to take? And she's like, yeah, I do. And I just think there's something to having

that consistent voice, that consistent support. Because there's gonna be days where it's like, this is the greatest thing ever. Oh yeah. I love what I do. And then there's days where you're like, why am I doing this? Yeah, and sometimes they're the same day. And you know, I've tried to get better at this, I'm not good at all, but my ups and downs of a high point or a low point, you know, bringing her, it's better to just give her the summary at the end of the day. Yeah, totally. Then it is, oh you won't believe what just happened.

And then, oh man, you won't believe what just happened. I know. And then another thing you said was, you know, just not wanting to be like this just fits my personality. It was a financial risk. And I wanted to pull it together. I didn't want to have to answer to someone else. And what I find is in entrepreneurship, whether you are bootstrapping it, whether you're getting a loan, whether you're getting an investor, all of it feels scary.

You know, it's like, just choose the option that feels the least scary. But when you bring in investors, you or alone, like you are now not an employee, but kind of an employee like you're in. This is an intense word, but you're like enslaved to that person. Like, I owe you this money back with interest. And so if you are able to really plan it out and say, all right, how can we do this? It can.

Leland Gross (18:36.434)

it can provide a lot of freedom. Now I know, right. Bringing on investors in certain situations can also be like gasoline on a fire. Like it can. And it's the good things of an investor are, you know, you've got that account, you're accountable to somebody else. Yeah. Not just yourself and your employees, but you're accountable to somebody else. And you know, if you're going to go with an investor, you would be highly advised to find somebody that can help. Like you said, put gasoline on, they've got connections, they know people, you can utilize their network or they can.

speak from experience of mistakes they've made in the past. Yeah, because an investor, when they give you their money, they are also bought in. Oh, yeah. They don't want to lose their money. So they want to give you their contacts. If they can support and make the business successful, they're making a financial investment. But there's also a personal investment there as well. But good on you for just saying, hey, we can get a small loan. But we're just going to.

do it ourselves. Yeah. Well, and we see the opportunity here with this and we realize it could take time. You know, I think for us too, it's again, taking that risk. You're measuring your risk levels and to have that conversation with my wife and say, hey, we can really downgrade our lifestyle to make this work for a few years until hopefully things start building faster. But right now I'm happy with the pace that we're at.

Um, you know, again, God keeps providing every step of the way. And, and I love this business because, you know, for me and even you and your business, like we get to make money, but we also get to do it by helping people. You know, and not a lot of people can do that. And I think for me, leaving the military, going to work at the, the first location I worked, you know, I saw, I learned two lessons, one that was a privately owned company. Um, sorry, that's my phone.

I was a privately owned company and every day I was working hard to make that family rich, which is great. That's awesome. I mean for them, not, it wasn't so as much for me. Um, but also I, I completely lost that, um, that sense of service, you know, and I was very lucky with the company I went and worked for after that to, to be able to see, man, you can help people and make a good living and, and you know.

Leland Gross (20:51.634)

I'm fortunate to be in this industry. Nobody wants to go into recruiting. You know, they always land in it somehow. But it's, you know, once you figure out the ropes, it's a good one to be in. And like you said, I mean, it's really rewarding to work in an industry where you make a positive impact on someone else's life. And I mean, what more than walking with someone through one of the biggest transitions of their life? Right. I mean, if you have a full career in the military and you step out,

That's it. That is not a small transition that you're making. No, you're leaving behind your tribe, you know, this whole culture that you've been a part of and been included in. And, you know, for depending on how long you're in that shift in itself is hard enough, you know, I don't help with that shift. There are companies that do. But to know that you've got at least your income, you know, taken care of and you've got a job you have that takes a lot of purpose going for like you're not just going to.

You're not just going to wake up Monday afterwards. And helping them see and understand the value they bring. You know, so many times any job seeker is out there looking for what they can get out of those opportunities. I think if the military community was able to verbalize better and have the tools to show and explain the value that they bring to a company, yes, there's a learning curve from the military to any single.

job they go to, but they bring a whole lot of value and I think helping them be able to verbalize that and network and get in with companies that have done this before that have hired veterans and understand what that's about and helping them see really the value they could bring each other. Totally. I mean, yeah, I think what you're doing is an incredibly powerful tool. That someone wouldn't wake up Monday after they retire and feel aimless, but to feel like I have a direction.

for employers like you said to know, hey, these people are valuable. They've got an insane life experience that comes with so much knowledge, wisdom, skills. These are great people to hire and to support. No one thinks the military is lazy. These are hardworking, really skilled people. And that's our goal with the platform, is for just the military community to be able to showcase themselves. I mean, to be able to say, hey, this is what I've done.

Leland Gross (23:11.426)

get out there and just explore and educate themselves on the types of opportunities. Because a lot of people get out, they don't know that they could use their GI bill to, like I said before, go to a culinary school or they can find a company where they can get their HVAC technician license or whatever it may be or get a top MBA. Some people are definitely planning, they know that they're going to do their four years or five years and get out and then they know exactly what they're doing. Others have been thrown into this world of the military.

where they see now that they're more capable of accomplishing goals that they never thought were within reach. And part of the Atlas platform is to show them, hey, look, here's some stuff you haven't thought of that you can do, man. I mean, you've got the skills. Yeah, you may need to upskill or reskill in some area of those buzzwords, but you can, all of this is attainable. And I think opening their eyes to that is, that's a good part about what we do. So you're in the,

already the recruiting world, but you come into Atlas, they're focusing on tech and startups, and now you have acquired it, you took the risk, and you're building it, slash have built it, to be so much more than just startups, but so many different industries, skills. And I know you said, you touched on, I have this vision that's bigger, that we can connect to so much more, we can demonstrate skills.

like the value these people can provide. We can show them that they can provide value. What's the long-term vision for Atlas? Is it still, is it gonna be primarily in that recruiting? I've heard you mention on like, we wanna connect them to schools that accept GI. We wanna, you know, to people who can step in and help them, like what's the vision? Yeah, I mean, the ultimate vision is for any company that wants access to the military community to be able to come onto the platform

show their value, hey, what they can do for the military community, what types of opportunities, training, education that they can provide that will help the careers of the military community. And I say military community because it does include spouses as well because that's a whole other topic we could talk about, but one that I feel is very important. And my future vision for Atlas on the military community side is, you know, really being able to go out there, they get to

Leland Gross (25:35.83)

their brand, they get to research all in one place, like what type of stuff is out there. Maybe they wanna go to coding bootcamp, or they're finding out about a company that teaches them how to sell tech and be able to make connections with that. And being able, man, it's a six month bootcamp, I can go in, I can learn tech sales, and then I can get a job with a tech company after that. There's a lot of that stuff out there that is so spread out across the internet.

Or you know, you may hear about it from your buddy who just got out, but there's no one place for all that to come together. So for the military community, I want them to be able to get on here and see even if they've been out for 15 years, you know, to see what types of opportunities are still available to them now for training, education or career. So that's amazing. So in this in the last 10 years, like you said, it's been for you kind of.

variable, we're in jobs or moving. I mean, you've had quite the journey in it. I mean, 10 years is not a short amount of time, but you've had quite a journey. Yeah, it's been busy though, yeah. What surprised you the most about purchasing Atlas, about this whole journey? Well, yeah, so it's funny because I feel like I'm repeating myself on my background a bit, but from being a veteran to putting all my trust in a company to find me a job that turned out to hate, to then going to work for...

a company that does that and seeing that business from all levels of a recruiter to sales to an executive leadership of that company to see it from every angle, dealing with companies and dealing with candidates to then taking a chance to work at a startup and seeing that life and then coming back. What's really funny is I never planned any of this, but every step of the way, as much as I loved it or hated it.

has all been this common thread that's helped become what Atlas is today. When I found out I had the opportunity to acquire Atlas when they reached out to me because they wanted to sell it, you know, I took a pause and I was like, no. And then I paused for a minute. I was like, you know, literally every job I've had is kind of prepared me to, to acquire this company and turn it into something every step of the way. I've learned something that I liked or didn't like about the industry that now I can apply here and fix that problem.

Leland Gross (27:58.81)

And I think that's been the biggest surprise is when I look back on the last 10 years or, you know, since I, since I left the military to see that there's, you know, God's had his hand in it. That there's a purpose. There's a purpose for, you know, everything that I experienced. There's this common thread with every step of the way that I feel like kind of culminates into to what Atlas is. Amen. I love that. Yeah. That's amazing. What was the low point for you? Man. And you said, you said it before that somebody, your, your guests have said it's, it's often.

You know, it is, I feel like there's been a few low points.

Leland Gross (28:34.626)

But at the, but looking back, I mean, all of them have recovered from, right? So the, trying to launch a brand under a, a very large company, um, you know, in our industry, uh, and launching a new brand and having to deal with the fallout from COVID of that brand, and then just saying, you know what, I'm going to go out on my own. Um, you know, that it was low, but it was exciting. I was fine for the first time. Yeah. I was unemployed essentially, but it's like,

I'm going to build something and I'm doing what I want to do and I don't have to answer to somebody else. And I think, you know, another low point going way back was, um, you know, finding myself, I come back from a deployment. I spent a little bit more time in the army, got out, went and worked for a company. I had a young kid at the time. Oldest was young and I was seeing, I was seeing them less than I was seeing them in the army, you know, and feeling like, and having no community, no sense of purpose.

other than just go to work and hopefully I get off by before the kids asleep at night. Um, and then come home and do it all again. Uh, you know, I, with, and I'm not trying to knock that company, but when I was in that role, um, you know, there was a weekend where we were in, in Beaumont, Texas. So we said, you know what, we're going down to Galveston. We're going to go to the beach. My family loves the beach. Um, so we're going to go to the beach. We were out at the beach. I was out on a kayak.

in the water and I left my phone and on the beach. And when I get back, there was like seven voicemails from my boss, this was a Saturday. And I call him back and he says, look, we pay for your phone, we expect you to answer it. And I was like, at that point, I was like, man, this is not what I signed up for. And I went in on Monday and he was there and he said, look, we needed you at the plant and you were nowhere to be found. And without.

And this, I guess this is kind of how we've looked at our career anyways, but without any second thought, I was like, okay, this is about giving him my two weeks notice. And he's like, and I had no plan, no nothing. I was very fortunate to fall back, but that just wasn't the life I wanted to live. So there's been low points, but at the end of the day, it's allowed me to be more of myself, allowed me to find this path that, you know, that I'm enjoying now. And you know, luckily, hopefully there's no, you know,

Leland Gross (30:58.782)

major low points other than just daily things that come and go. As we're building this, this Atlas brand and you know, with the launch of this platform, but who knows, you know, I bet, I think, I think all of it makes you better and puts you more on the path that you're supposed to be on. So I totally agree. And that's brutal. We pay for your phone. You have to answer. I'm like, gosh, those are the things that I had no intention of quitting. I was like, Oh, this is not what I want to be doing, man. I'm two weeks notice. And he was shocked, but it's how I couldn't.

I wasn't gonna do that. Yeah, you're like, I have a life to live, I have a family to be with. And I mean, those are the kind of things that are the reasons people start go entrepreneurial and self-employed is because you're like, I don't want, I want my life to be my life, not your life. Like I want to be home with my kids. Yeah, exactly. For bedtime, I want to be able to do these things. There's a lot of great companies out there that recognize that, you know, and I realize not everybody's cut out to be.

to own their own business. Not everybody is. And if everybody was owning their own business, my business would have no need to exist, you know? And so I think, you know, and a bit of, for a lot of people, it is a journey. A lot, I'm sure a lot of the folks that you've talked to and a lot of people that find themselves, you know, owning a business of their own, you know, it's just, it's come about in such a, it's not always been that goal. It's not always been the end point. Like one day I'm going to own my own business. It's just, it makes most sense as you're managing your career.

you get to a point where you say, you know, I think I can do this better than who I was just working for. And you step out on your own and do it. Or you just look at the math, especially in the recruiting industry, and you start adding things up about how commissions get split and how much work you're doing. And you're like, well, if I would have put this math on a napkin five years ago, I'd have already started my own agency. So it's not for everybody, but it's been a great path for me and my family. I love that.

I love that for your family, for the people you serve. So this is a podcast about success. But if you pull anybody on the side of the road and ask them what is the definition of success or how do you define success, you're gonna get a different answer from different people. So for you, for Nick, how would you define success and how will you know if or when you've achieved it?

Leland Gross (33:18.01)

And, you know, I've heard your previous podcast when you asked that. And I think about that a lot. And I do think that the individual's definition of success can change, uh, throughout their career and throughout their life. I, for me right now, um, you know, I, I define success for me, which is different for other people is being able to design the lifestyle that I want without my career being the center of that. Every, every other piece has to fall into place.

You know, my career, my work is a big part of who I am. You know, you, I've got four kids. If you ask three of them, what I do, they probably have no clue, you know? So as a family, as a whole, um, you know, being able to design this lifestyle that is not got, that doesn't have my business at the center of it, but it's still a major, a major part. Um, and then being able to provide a quality

service to the companies that we work with and the veterans, of course. I mean, I've talked a lot about that already, but really being able to provide a service and a tool to companies that help them get better. Because I truly believe that when companies hire veterans, they're making a smart business decision. And so by being able to provide a low cost pathway for them to do that, as opposed to every other option that's on the market right now for them to hire veterans, some of them, they don't...

they've got some skills to hire veterans, but they need more tools. They need access. And we saw that access in a way that allows them to afford it and, and capitalize on, you know, they're, they can hire one or they can hire a hundred and same price, you know, and, and that, that I feel like in the industry that, that is a definition of success for us. So, but yeah, ultimately lifestyle design, being able to live the life I want, be in control of my own time.

be able to help coach the kids, be available. So yeah, I think in that regard, I do feel successful. I feel very thankful that I'm able to be in this position. It's still a grind, you know? And I think my definition of success will include that plus other things down the road, you know? But I'm enjoying the grind now. I don't know how long I'll enjoy it. Hopefully things will progress in a way to where it's not.

Leland Gross (35:35.534)

Um, not as much of a grind, but yeah, it's, is it. Yeah. That's amazing. Um, and I think a really worthwhile vision of success and, and we don't have a lot of people come on who say, I am successful right now. And so I love when I get to hear that of like, this is my definition. And I think, man, I really think that I can look back so many times in my career, even when, you know, making some of the best money I've ever made.

And I'm sitting there thinking like, man, I really, I want to be working for myself. So you don't feel successful because you're not doing what you want to do. Even if you're making the money and, you know, I had to work for a great company, a great team, you know, great time off. I said, Hey, I've got to get out early, coach my kids game. They would, they would let me go. Um, and it was never an issue, but I always, I didn't feel successful because I wasn't owning my own path. And I think once I took ownership of that, I had, it was, it was a relief, even though there was a financial strain.

to acquiring this company, but I felt that sense of accomplishment and success of being able to finally be in control of my own destiny. Mm-hmm, I love that. Well, Nick, thank you so much for being on the Self-Employment Success podcast today. Yeah, it's been great, I really appreciate it. Of course, we'll have to have you back. Yeah, yeah, please do. All right. All right.