Episode 9: Navigating Burnout w/Emily Brown Levis LMFT

I have a very special guest on today’s episode, my sister-in-law and dear friend Emily Brown Levis. Emily owns her own therapy practice operating as a couples therapist and a supervisor for other therapists starting off in their careers. What is unique about Emily is how she left a flourishing practice she had with a business partner in Northern Virginia to move to a new city to marry her husband, and in doing so had to restart her business from scratch. Living in a new city, with a new husband, and starting her business over was a year filled with some of life’s largest transitions. Emily speaks to how she navigated that with immense grace for herself in the process. In this episode Emily shares honestly about her own journey through burnout and a depressive episode that led her to do some real and deep heart work, asking herself if being a therapist is really what is best for her and how she ultimately came to the decision that, yes, it is, but it has to be done in a way that provides balance and allows her to live her life to its fullest potential without burnout and without working with just anybody. And be sure to listen in, as Emily explains that a secret to her success this time around has been getting clear on who her ideal client is, and trusting the process to the point of turning away potential clients that didn’t fit that mold. So with that introduction, I hope you enjoy today’s episode of the self-employment success podcast with Emily Brown Levis.

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TRANSCRIPT

leland_gross (00:01.544)

all right welcome emily brown levis to the self employment success podcast thanks for having me i'm excited to have you here for the listeners this is a very special podcast for me because emily is actually my sister in law as a just over a year ago they just celebrated her and my brother in law just celebrated their one year anniversary and so emily is family turned one of our best friends which is awesome and so really excited to have you here and excited for yu

to share with the world your story because you've had such an interesting story with self with self employment and entrepreneurship kind of a journey along the way so tell the listeners a little bit about yourself now and kind of where your business is as it stands today short like you said my name emily and i'm a licensed marian family therapist and i doing the moth today i've been in the field for ten years i graduated from my

that's a lie a lie one of the things i wanted to share today is that therapist are good a mast that's okay that's why there's finance people that's why we need you know i gratuanntwenty sixteen so i started i started in the field i started graduate school in twenty thirteen but yeah i've been licensed and i specialized in couple therapy when you're licensed margin family therapist you can really work with

ever you want individuals families couples and i was always drawn to couples to marriage work and so i've been doing that for as long as i've been able to and it's just a passion of i love it so much and i currently own my own practice i've been in a partnership before i've been employed by a private practice in the past but yeah as i've gone just over the years getting to know myself as

business person as a person person m yeah the private practice the soul of private practice is where we're not right now that's awesome and you are not only a marriage family therapist but yo're also a supervisor isn't that right so you actually supervise other marriage couples counselors as well yeah yeah and so it's kind of hard to explain sometimes but i'm am i'm i'm a supervisor a board of virginia so meaning like any marriage family therapist that wants to become licensed

leland_gross (02:31.224)

i can supergize them but then because i'm a marriage councillor i also have a special designation as an emotionally focus therapist and so that's kind of a separate credential from just being licensed in the city of virginia and so that's really where i identify the most is when organization of people who are experiential therapist that help create strong bonds between couples between loved ones and so in that circle i'm also

supevishope people train to become sortie that model okay that's awesome and really impressive so like you said you started off as an employee moved a partner moved to solo business owner and so many people i feel like it's almost well and i'm not a specialist in the counseling world but i feel like you can just be an employee i've done lots of therapy

but you can just be an employee of a firm your whole career and they kind of help you like they provide clients for you and all that so i guess tell us how you got started and then what prompted you to leave the employee world and start kind of progressing on the entrepreneur side of it sure so so yeah a lot of people they leave graduate school jump into what we call agency work and so that's kind of very much employee

hours are set for you a lot of burn out happens in agency work and so i'd like to just give a disclaimer about that i never worked in an agency i was always in the private practice world and so even my my internship was in a private practice and so i think really what drew me into private practice a new number of things but really my my super adviser my mentor at the time just really

created this business that she loved and that worked for her and remember we think she always said was i don't want to be anybody's boss s not what i'm about and when you're a resident you're employed but then once you are licensed you can just be like a ten ninety nine and independent contractor so very quickly in my career i was at ten ninety nine i kind of got used to being in a practice so i had the security of clients being sent to

leland_gross (05:01.744)

supervision when i needed it an office space all that stuff was part of the deal but i slowly kind of got into final tax is a certain way and all the good stuff that i literally think i bought ten for dummies like one honestly that's probably more than most of in maybe and so so yeah so i kind of got a taste of it over time and really

when i was in the partnership there's so many great things about that too that i kind of miss now the shared emotional load of like i had a long day and at least my business partner knows exactly what i'm going through what i'm facing but then there's obviously haviang a partner there's collaboration there's things that you have to kind of there's limitations to partnership as well and so i was in my partnership up in northern virginia and

it kind of happened all at the same time that i i t my husband ryan levice who is your wife's brother we both married into the family we are levis and so so i kind of meant i wasn't sure what we were going to do ran has a great job at a church here locally and and i was reading actually for a change i was ready for a demographic change really i was in the d c northern virginia space and i was just really tired and the over it

yeah it all just kind of worked out that i could leave the partnership get married moved down here in no we live in nortolk and start over and so that's kind of been my focus in the last year has been rebuilding a practice having a lot of the knowledge to get started but doing it so low in a whole new world yeah so to review you kind of were a resident employe hitting my mice over here reside

employee your supervisor kind of gave you the vision of not being anybody else's employe kind of having the freedom and autonomy of being a business owner so quickly entered the ten ninety nine space from there built this partnership that was i think your underselling was really successful is really successful partnership in northern virginia and then you're kind of getting to a place of i'm ready for a change there things about the partnership that are really great and short

leland_gross (07:31.304)

as to any partnership you meet ryan you're ready to get married and so you sell your portion of the of the partnership relocate to a whole new city where contact ryan has a lot of contact but you're starting fresh and then completely restarting a whole new business which like that is a fascinating journey and inhabitant kind of hitting the reset button and going back to square one grind

and i was like a did this one but i am also seeing like howhow just amazing that time in virginia was because my partner had done her grind and i kind of got to be a part of it and add to it but really now that i'm building it on my own i'm like so much respect so much respect and so

so yeah unfortunately because of the training side of my business as a supervisor um i had some contact professionally down here but when it comes to getting clients i mean i can have some clients meaning patients or couples to work with um it's good to know a few therapist so they can send you referls but really your best referalsource or your previous clients i didn't have any previous clients and so there was some some niavity

um little bit of pride i was like i'm going to open the doors of my practice and be in flood it hasn't there's not been a flood but the started to trickle to like a mist and now there's like riley there's like really there's like a drum a drizzle a stream a river and then a flood we're working our way there were there surely

um but yeah so the last probably last three or four months are where i've seen i'm back to that place of earning where i was before making the practice which in all reality is really impressive for the fact that it's been one year you know like i mean you have you have to remember that some people like in my field it's like give yourself a three to ten year runway ten is exaggerated

leland_gross (10:01.224)

but three is really normal to just get to a place where ye like i can breathe and see that this is going to become successful and so rebuilding that so fast is really impressive i'm struck by the confidence there like you called it proud but i just think so many and maybe it's because you've had the entrepreneur side before but i just feel like so many people thinking about self employment thinking about entrepreneurship are stepping in and their biggest fear is if i open the door as will anybody

and how do i do that i've heard the crickets yeah heard them whereas you you osite and i'm okay you can do it if you build it they will come eventually right well i think what part of where the confidence came in is that i very much attribute this to the lord and his faithfulness i just had excellent training as a therapist training that most people don't just have opportunity to get

and so being younger but having all of this really focus training i'm confident that i'm a good therapist i think i'm a great therapist but then when it comes to the business side of things and write like the hustle and marketing and social media right like all the things that you get business today i yeah i didn't realize that wasn't going to translate but i'm just a really good therapist and then well like

right my business i'm a business owner i can forget that i think i can say i practice but when i say practice i ink of my clients and teaching a super vision and i don't think of dollars and revenue and overhead and quarterly taxes and yeah that's a really good point of the fact that i kind of equate there there are different types of entreenorcers the ones that love business they don't really

what their business is doing they like working on business and they typically hire people to work in the business whatever it is and then there's the people who love their what they're doing but not necesarily the business side and so they like working in their business and when they think of business they think of that they think of what they produce a yeah the services they provide and then but then when it comes to the working on the business piece they're like this is dry

leland_gross (12:31.304)

terrible and then there's a third who i call the accidental entrepreneurs who like had a hobby that started making money and then they're like i don't know what i'm doing at all but yeah i think that that's very real for a lot of people who like yourself love what you do have great training are really good at it and so you're doing it but then like oh i need to work i'm i'm an employe and like employer of myself both and so i need to balance those hats

totally and what's tough is when i i can tell myself i'm really good at the business side of things because on the business ide of things i think i have i have great ideas i yeah i ave new ideas every single day my husband is like is this when i should really listen to r that's because he's a levis and then he does the same thing ashe's like are we actually going to do this or are you just a dreamer and i'm like write down every single one matter

no but yeah i think i think i do thrive in some areas of the business world but when it comes to just claim simple eictivefunctioning clearing out my box sending over that thing i said i would send over to you really bad at that yeah which is okay and important to know our strength and weaknesses like you know most entrepreters don't have a degree in business which is funny enough like most business degrees aren't

actually owning a business and so we're all out here trying to navigate something that truly is like the wild west like there's a million ways to market there's a million ways to do your taxes to structure your business to like congratulations that's a big deal it essential for those listening it essentially means that you are able to literally separate the employee and employer that we were just talking about

you can pay yourself a salary for your employee and because you're working in the business and then you can give yourself a profit distribution as an employer because your business was profitable but profit distributions don't pay social security tax you actually end up saving yourself in taxes so as opposed to paying yourself let's say a hundred thousand dollars and paying social city tax on all of that you pay yourself a sixty thousand dollar salary that pays that extra tax and then forty thousand doesn't

leland_gross (15:01.304)

have that so it is a fun little tax loop pool that we're all just hoping the i s doesn't get rid of exactly my my bookkeeper nice christie christie bookkeeper we love you we need to okay so in this process of re starting and realizing like i'm great at what i do and i just need to get the word

out about that and not having passed clients who are local local and referring you how have you grown so fast than a year to the point where i'm just now making what i was making before i'm assuming some of that is that training and teaching and professional contacts but i guess break that down what was that like from day one we opened the doors well probably the hardest thing was to stick to my own boundaries

in the very beginning i knew that i wanted to start building a client base in norfolk in virgin bhhamptonrods area but because of the nature of therapy today everything can be virtual and online and so i'd have people from virginia and surrounding areas up there that would be calling like my phone was ringing but it wasn't ringing with clients here and i remember having to really talk through this with colleagues and

kind of create this boundary of like i'm not going to take clients just to make money right now i'm not gonna just take clients that don't fit my ideal client and once i've in the field in my field long enough other fields too but like really in visioning who who is my ideal client and will i trust the process to wait for that ideal client and learn how to market to that client and all these other things so i say the first thing i did was i actually like stopped

client flow i started saying no to people who were no longer my ideal client and then i went from wanting to be local i was like i have to local and virtual but now i want to be in person it's been hard for a lot of our therapist to transition to working back in the office so many people love the comfort in the access that virtual care provides and i do too actually kind of have a mixed as i have some in person in some form

leland_gross (17:31.424)

and i always work that way but i knew i wanted to get back in the office so that's probably the first thing and then when it came to actually getting new clients i did just tart to kind of take local business where i could get it and so that's where the training part of my business comes in like i said i had some contacts here that they knew my name they knew that i was a supervisor and so

really i started grabbing coffee with people and started building building relationships that way so currently i actually say like two thirds of my actual practice my week is training training and supervision and then the other third are clients um so so reaching out to people i already knew and then i actually did this before when i was in northern virginia trying to build clients for my residency but i

i did this again so i contacted local churches and sat down and met with several pastors or care ten leaders and let them know that i was in the area

yeah other things a lot of their purse like psychology profiles and you can pay to have yeah your names listed places have been really hit or missed for me you know so just building relationships i think because what i do is so relational so to get face time with me with a pastor or even just another provider in the area refer people to me been the best way something you said that i think is really

so respectful and like i just have so much respect for it is i was willing to say no to people who aren't my ideal client and in the financial planing world especially in the private practice kind of independent financial planning world there's a saying the riches are in the nitches essentially saying like if you can define the people you like to work with the kind of demographics you like to work with that you feel confident with

leland_gross (19:42.564)

and you can build your practice around that you can market to those people you only take on those people you can actually end up making more money with less stress because you're not every client isn't just a totally different situation which can create burn out but from my own experience it's hard it's hard to say no when you're building a business and someone's here saying i will pay you for your experts and you're like i don't think this is going to be fun to work with you but

i need to make this thing work and so there is this like inner gut check and almost like discipline that comes with having to say you know i think you're going to be better served by this other person or happy to refer you to some one else and almost let that opportunity pass you by with the like you said the trust that if i am diligent in this and i trust this process i will have a practice that is

not only successful but fulfilling and fun to go to every day more so than just like this person's on my calendar and i just they're hard you know like they're not the type of person i love to work with and so i just think from the perspective of moving to a new city getting married which we're about to talk about and starting a business back from scratch to really hold true to that is really impressive and

and honestly probably what's led to success what i will say that really quick before we talk about marriage which i love in marriage there is but i will say that so much of that discipline and that confidence has also come from doing it the wrong way the other way and so a lot of us who are in my field when you're early on in your career and i'm sure this is with so many others

fields but it's just like you want to get hours because you want to get your credential ling and so the more client face to face hours you have the quicker you can meet your goals and then you have agencies or practices that you're earning them a lot of money and your career and so they're like you can handle three more right yeah of course i can of worse and when you haven't had a lot of your own internal work which i hadn't early in my career

leland_gross (22:12.384)

it's like yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yeah i'm sure i can do that and so in twenty twenty i actually hit a major burn out in my career so this is actually before meeting ryan in my partnership my partner was absolutely amazing through all of that but i i fell into major depressive episode and we can go into that more later if you want to but really it's had to scale that

everything and look at life and my values and my why and all this really important stuff and so not only am i strict about my ideal client but i'm also strict about how many clients i see a week like i know what i need to earn to feel good and as we know like mental health in america is not awesome in the what

verum i'm actually like really bad at like idioms and classic phrases which is really funny because i am i'm talkin therapist like what's the one people help me but mental health is we're all really struggling and so there is an endless supply of business but to say no and to protect even even down to the hours i want to work if you can't meet at this one time i've given you that i'm not the right

therfisfor so let's take a ton of internal work support from family from my husband from people that helped me build structure because again i'm i struggle with structure and some executive function so anyway let's talk about my husband well i want to respond to that real fast because and i think that's true like in my in my own practice i heard people say like ideal client

work with that and i did and now there's a lot of me that's going back and kind of saying like who who's the right fit which is more it's more painful on the back end but i think it makes sense to like there is a quantity over quality or quality over quantity and if you're really providing a lot of quality you typically can actually raise your rates like i'm actually an expert in this specific field because this is what i do and this is how i work and if you want the quality

leland_gross (24:42.364)

of this and you want the like my experts this is kind of how it works and if not that's okay like you said there's an abundance of business and there's an abundance of therapist like there's a financial adviser on every block so like i you don't wan to work with me that's great maybe i'm not the best fit for you and i am the best fit for someone else and so like but i think that takes what you said a lot of heart work which is hard work to come to that place and be okay with that and be confident

i know my limitations and i know it works for me and we'll go into what success means to me but radically that's awesome i'm excited to hear about that so the thing about marriage that i'm interested in is as you know as a marriage therapist that you have a wonderful marriage he thank you what else

yeah linde's linda makes it easy to be a husband she's incredible and in that like for you i think people would say getting married is one of the biggest transitions in life moving is one of the biggest transitions in life buying a home is a huge transition starting a business is a huge transition and you did all of that in twelve months and so and i just know like starting a bed

this financially can be stressful and can like all of these transitions can put tension on a relationship and you did all of them in a year with your new found relationship and so i guess what was that like on the personal side like i'm in a new city starting a new business with my new husband um was was that really smooth because you have all the tools because you're a mariage therapist or was that like everything else

or like i guess what was that like from personal perspective you know yah it's it's it's cool i got married a little bit later in life i met ring when i was thirty and so i think first and foremost i just have so much gratitude to be in this stage of life and to see god's hand in everything along the way n

leland_gross (27:12.504)

realizing like i yeah i wouldn't have i wouldn't have chosen to meet ryan one day sooner than when i met m like it was just so the right time in like and so that's really i think helped so much being older being a little more mature even when the classic hard things happen it's like oh but like this is what i've been excited to work through with sonbodywhere this is what building a family looks like and so

sure there's been like the classic things here and there he's tidy i'm not i'm a spender he's not you know things so we're working that out but he also has done so much of his own healing and work as well and so i just feel like obviously it's a reason i was drawn to him but it's just made that process so much easier mbteahwe're also like incredible humans

so it's been really stressful and buying a house was a whirlwind it's that classic like we're just going to start looking and then we bought a house wedding the week end at up but now at all these being on the other side it was just it was just hard work like i mentioned with the the depressive episode i have a history of depression and so i did i had some bumps along the way

as feeling overwhelmed feeling lonely um don't o if i mentioned that ryan is also a pastor we did so also like new church but that's like a whole other thing to other community and like layer of community yeahthere's became a pastor way wow and i say that i actually have a huge art for the local church so it fits and didn't know anybody and ryansbenhav that this church for like over seven years

and so entering into another part of his world but again i just like it's been happening really graciously i think i remember first year i was like i just need to know this is all going to be hard for a year nd i might keep being hard but i shouldn't expect it to be easy before a year and now it's been a year and i'm like a t you know i have formed relationships at church i do kind of see where i can use my gift

leland_gross (29:42.484)

and my leadership by my prctirs is finally where i want it part of it was just also just being gracious towards myself and having to go there yeayeahtotaly um i love the idea of just like owning this is going to be hard for a season and the season could be like a year which is you know like four seasons but and owning that for you especially that was

in lots of layers in lots of ways because you're building foundations not just foundation of a business but of a marriage of a life of a new city and um but i think that that is truly like a helpful mindset for anybody in transition especially like starting a business i feel like if i had that much if i had that much like grace for myself my first year that would have been a lot smoother of like this is just this is just going to suck for a bit

but like be uncomfortable this entire year i'm gonna be questioning myself and have impostors and drum i'm going to cry a lot you know but i cried quite a bit and it is encouraging to see that as as the process goes things do begin to work things do get easier i feel like we've been experiencing that with our son with our th our business with

that in our life of like this is just going to be hard and then the second year it's hard but less hard and you're acually kind of used to the hard and then like third year you're like okay now we're in a rhythm like now we're moving and um so yeah i i just love that mindset of like accepting it owning it and being gracious to yourself in the midst of it because you're doing a lot oh man i love that and we married into

great family where the spouses are just so so incredibly supportive they're all just very nice people that's funny and andre okay so on your journey what what has surprised you the most your journey through whether it's from being a therapist o a business owner to just all the transition what what has surprised you the most

leland_gross (32:11.084)

m

leland_gross (32:15.304)

so i don't know i'm trying to think i think

leland_gross (32:26.804)

i don't know that's okay can you give me has anything has anything been surprising from like how like hard it's been how easy it's been how quickly something happened how like you know and if not that's okay but i would just tell me that you expected everything to go exactly how it's gone yes no i would say i would say i was

i mean i was definitely surprised when my barn out happened i thought that i was keeping up with everybody you know i was also in my twenties wasn't married and like with like a d c crew right and so everyone's working late and it's like a badge of honor to you know be so tired because i just worked with you know dumb stuff and i really like

an achiever part of me is definitely like more of a creative but another really strong part of me as an achiever and i just let that achiever kind of be an overdrive for a long time and so i think i was surprised that if i didn't keep that in check it was like really gonna leave me to a tough place so such a therapist i'm like so just talking about my world of myself that's great that is your gift and your experts so let's share it

i think i did a lot of i also just did a lot of my practice without again any structure boundaries and now that i have it i like

how did i do that before i just started using a calendar on my phone in the last year welcome to the twenty first century it's really wonderful you know i don't bring an appointment one just like i get to work and i left my calendar behind and like well people are going to come here today and i'll see who it is pretty sure and like no early in my career when i was working way too much all this stuff i'd be like pretty sure i have two o'clock and i was just

leland_gross (34:41.184)

there's that executive functioning that is yeah yeah you are great and and now you have a digital calendar so if you work with her folks she will know you're coming um actual um you've always shown up when we've been hanging out on time so i'm assuming you know in that time

leland_gross (35:10.384)

m um okay so that's what surprised you most was kind of the burn out and this could be the same answer but what was the low point for you in the process well honestly the low point so more recently the low point i think has been just in the building up of the business ealizing like like some of my

in northern virginia working in the practice i was part of like like i think yeah i think i didn't realize how great i had it like and now that i was ever ungrateful or anything like that but just really realizing how how impactful that's been and yeah i got to be part of something really special um because rebuilding it has been hard again

facing some of those things of like right i just i got a kind of wake up n make something new make something like my own but then with the the depression stuff i mean when i was at my lowest i was you know so many of us in the field get into into being a therapist because we have their experience therapy has been very helpful some of us think that we like can help people and we have it all figured out

which probably means you just haven't done your work yet so i was kind of that person and so i had to ask myself a lot of hard questions when i was at the bottom of just why did i get into the field was i trying to fix or do something inside of me was i yeah what was i not facing inside of myself and so just do i want to be a therapist anymore which had been every everything

as we know i cannot do simple hat and so i e a therapist but i'm definitely not goin t be an account and so but really it was just like i really really thought about it about leaving the field just because it's hard work what we do to sit and people suffering all day long and it's a joy and a privilege honestly joy sounds funny but but it really is when you see what love

leland_gross (37:38.864)

i do how people can heal yeah so anyway it was gonna be hard to leave that but i really did have to wonder if with my own mental health and just what my job requires if it was still a good fit and it's a great fit but that was hard to question everything up to that point yeah i can't imagine i mean and it makes sense when i think about especially as an emotionally focus therapist which i'm sure all

p is like this but like entering into anybody's suffering takes a toll on you you're not going to be like arms length with that and also getting the serial weeping in session

like weeping sounds like crying like listening to you i let myself be impacted people's experience every and so like yeah and then also getting to see the beauty of redemption and healing like that takes just an emotional takes a huge capacity emotional capacity and then also when you're kind of like you said doing your own heart work like is this healthy for me in my is it just too much m

that is some serious like soul searching red that's that's soul searching beyond just who's my ideal client which is some soul searching but like that that's some real like a keeper who is emily round levis and who you know what is good fit for her eh and so that was three yea three years ago two and a half years when i was the very bottom and so it's like as i've created structure now

i've defined what the success looks like in all these things alongside treatment on my own therapy and learning about myself yeah i think i feel like i'm like the healthiest place i've been in in my whole life probably and not that i've hit a ceiling by any means like there's more but just feeling so much more balanced and life feels more predictable and ye and i'm still on that turn

leland_gross (39:52.044)

but i found i found a business that works for me ve created a business that works for me that's wonderful and so this is a podcast about success but if you ask anybody on the street what does that word mean you'll get a different answer everyone define success differently and so what to success look like for you and how will you know when or if you achieve it so it's funny i have somebody asking

this probably like right before my burn out happened but i was kind of i knew i was overworked and so i was talking to a counsellor at the time and she asked me this like very similar question like what if you could make up tomorrow ten years from now or whatever like in the future what would be like what brings you peace and closed my eyes and i had this image game to me of being like a crisp fall day

and i'm holding the hand of like a three or four year old my three or four year old i married there's no husband in the picture yeah but m and right and it was like i was still dressed professionally so it's like i was working but i had no stress i all this time so decide i was walking her to school and it just came over me this idea of i want to be available for my family i want to contin

to use the gifts that god's get in

leland_gross (41:27.164)

and then that's just the peacefulness of it all was like the most overwhelming sang and i just want ed flexibility and i feel like that's that's the biggest thing that being in private practice in particular allows i make my own schedule i don't have to ask for vacation if the day because i want to go to a p football game or it doesn't happen during the okweekbutyou know there's there's ten m on tuesday

leland_gross (42:00.604)

yeah yeah and so i think it's just balance from a financial perspective i think before the big burn out i i was very financially independent and successful and i had all the things that everybody else was grinding for i would get messages and i had to do this

things so i fell in moderation but but even at the top when i was working hard and making good money i wasn't happy and i've also had that lived experience to which i think you don't know it until you get there and so yeah now it's not making this amount of money or living in this kind of house where this kind of a code it just more about

ye who i love a mean that the image of you walking my niece to school i mean there was no talk of what you were wearing but where you lived it was just it it's a beautiful day i'm i have a family and i have time and space to show up whole for them and i still have my practice and i'm still showing up like the just the

you painted that and felt balanced it felt like a that was nice that's awesome i'm just realizing we just bought the house nd it's like a block away from as i love that i love that and i'm excited for when you guys have babies which is a weird thing to say on a podcast not the first one

well thank you i mean obviously i love you and it's so fun to hear you share your story and just really appreciate you being on the self employment success podcastthfor having me